Monday, December 7, 2009

Shabbas 19a - Going on a boat trip close to shabbas

Here is a short summary of a number of the reasons presented by Rishonim for why “אין מפליגין בספינה פחות מג' ימים קודם לשבת” except if is for a devar mitzva or before three days before shabbas (mostly as summarized by the Ritva)

1. Rashbam (as quoted in Ritva and Tosfos Eruvin 43a) – The issue is one of finishing a melacha before shabbas and only assur according to beis shammai. It seems that there is a dispute if he means the melacha of a goy (the seifa of our mishna) or שביתת כלים. The language of the Rashbam in Tosfos Eruvin is “דלא שרו לעשות מלאכה בע”ש אלא בכדי שיעשו מבעוד יום”. It seems from the Rosh that we are talking about שביתת כלים since he asks the following question: Since the issur is techumim and only derabanan, even בית שמאי are modeh that there is no problem, like טוענים קורות בית הבד ועיגולי הגת. However, according to the Ritva, he quotes עורות לעבדן, and mentions the goy doing melacha for the Jew (again of brining him out of the techum)

2. Rabbeinu Chananel: The issur is techum and only applies to a low boat.

3. Rif: The problem is ביטול עונג שבת as it takes a few days to get used to the water and seasickness. (Can a large cruise be allowed as I assume you barely feel that you are at sea?)

4.Baal Hamaor: going on this trip is that you place yourself in a situation of ספק סכנה and therefore it looks as if you are creating a situation on purpose of being מחלל שבת. So, three days before shabbas is called “before shabbas” and one has to have it in mind. He therefore extends to this to other scenarios as well such as going to a desert (and what Rav Meir mentioned in shiur. Does this relate to cutting your nails three days before shabbas as well?)

5. Tosfos (Ritzba -eruvin 43a): The issur is a גזירה אטו שיטה על פני המים  that you may make a boat or steer such a boat yourself for 4 amos in a karmelis (the water). Since this is just a חשש and גזירה, the takana does not take effect in case of devar mitzva or leaving before three days before.

6. Ramban: the case that is assur is where 50% or more of the passengers on the boat are ישראל and since driving the boat involves a number of issurei torah like tying and untying, if the goy is doing that melacha for you on shabbas, then it is assur. However, this is only when the boat is starting close to shabbas, since if earlier then it does not look like the goy is doing melacha for the  ישראל anymore

It would seem according to all these reasons (except Tosfos and maybe Rif) that you can book your cruise without a problem and thought of when it is leaving. (there is a discussion if and how to go on shabbas as well)

6 comments:

Guo Guo said...

guowenhao20150326
kate spade outlet
cheap nba jerseys
babyliss
fitflop shoes
links of london
louis vuitton uk
toms
nfl jerseys wholesale
ray ban
longchamp handbags
lacoste shirts
herve leger
coach factory outlet
louboutin shoes
tiffany and co
links of london uk
valentino shoes
nba jerseys wholesale
hollister uk
air max 95
cheap nfl jerseys
coach outlet
mlb jerseys wholesale
louis vuitton outlet stores
ralph lauren outlet
michael kors uk
herve leger dresses
ferragamo shoes
louis vuitton handbags
air jordan concord
coach outlet online
hollister
rolex watches
coach outlet store
salomon shoes
tods shoes
lebron james shoes
hollister clothing
mac makeup
tiffany jewelry

Shijun Lin said...

shijun 5.20
ray ban outlet store
michael kors watches
retro 11
jordan 6s
michael kors
oakley sunglasses outlet
pandora jewelry
kate spade totes
true religion sale
concord 11
kobe 8
ray-ban sunglasses
hollister outlet
toms.com
louis vuitton outlet
michael kors handbags
hollister kids
ray-ban sunglasses
oakley sunglass
michael kors
abercrombie outlet
chanel outlet
tods shoes outlet
coach outlet online
michael kors outlet
ghd
jordan retro 8
jordan 11 retro
fitflop outlet
ray ban uk
michael kors
hollister clothing store
coach outlet online
jordan shoes
coach outlet
ray bans
christian louboutin sale
louis vuitton outlet
tory burch shoes
burberry outlet

Unknown said...

miami heat jersey
coach outlet canada
gucci shoes
tory burch outlet
cheap soccer jerseys
new orleans saints jerseys
kate spade outlet
christian louboutin uk
koby bryant shoes
true religion jeans
coach outlet
tory burch outlet
oakley sunglasses canada
michael kors outlet
hermes birkin
golden state warriors jerseys
the north face uk
washington redskins jerseys
air max 2015
air max 90
cheap nike shoes
atlanta falcons jersey
bottega veneta outlet
chanel outlet
nike outlet store
nike air max uk
juicy couture outlet
baltimore ravens jerseys
mbt shoes
mulberry outlet
michael kors uk
kansas city chiefs jerseys
real madrid jersey
arizona cardinals jerseys
beats headphones
ralph lauren uk
san francisco 49ers jerseys
burberry outlet
barcelona jersey
new york giants jerseys
hang0622

方松腾 said...

soccer jerseys,cheap soccer jerseys,cheap soccer jerseys for sale,soccer jersey,usa soccer jersey,football jerseys
lebron 12
tiffany and co
ralph lauren polo
oakley outlet online
coach outlet online
basketball shoes
snow boots outlet
air jordan 13 free shipping
tory burch outlet
ugg boots
chanel handbags
uggs outlet
michael kors usa
canada goose sale
replica watches
michael kors uk outlet
canada goose outlet
futbol baratas
michael kors uk outlet

方松腾 said...

soccer jerseys,cheap soccer jerseys,cheap soccer jerseys for sale,soccer jersey,usa soccer jersey,football jerseys
lebron 12
tiffany and co
ralph lauren polo
oakley outlet online
coach outlet online
basketball shoes
snow boots outlet
air jordan 13 free shipping
tory burch outlet
ugg boots
chanel handbags
uggs outlet
michael kors usa
canada goose sale
replica watches
michael kors uk outlet
canada goose outlet
futbol baratas
michael kors uk outlet

柯云 said...

2016-01-19keyun
ralph lauren outlet
jordan shoes
ugg boots
polo ralph lauren
true religion jeans
ugg australia
ray-ban sunglasses
swarovski crystal
ugg boots on sale
abercrombie outlet
ray ban outlet
michael kors outlet
nike trainers sale
louis vuitton purses
vans sneakers
tory burch outlet online
prada handbags
fake oakley sunglasses
beats by dre outlet
ray ban sunglasses
hollister clothing
cheap ugg boots
oakley sunglasses
louis vuitton bags
chanel purses
air max 95
michael kors outlet
ray-ban sunglasses
air max 95
oakley sunglasses wholesale
coach outlet
ralph lauren outlet
jordan retro 11
louis vuitton
oakley outlet
gucci handbgs
hollister clothing
air max 95
christian louboutin shoes
michael kors outlet online