Wednesday, October 24, 2007

מגביה מציאה לחבירו and the proof from the Mishna (Bava Metzia 8a)

The Acharonim ask the very obvious question, how can the Gemara think to bring a proof from the Mishna, the Mishna is clearly not a case where you are picking it up for your friend. There seems to be 2 fundamental approaches:
1. The פני יהושע says that אין הכי נמי. The רישא in the Mishna is not מגביה מציאה לחבירו because you are not picking it up for him. The Gemara could have asked this and deflected all the proofs from the Mishna. However, the Gemara had other answers to deflect the proofs. למסקנה that we learn out from the last case, there is no problem since they both agree they picked it up together.
2. A person is assumed to have the necessary כוונא in order to acquire the object. Therefore, if in the mishna he needs כוונא for his friend then we ascribe that כוונא to him.

There is a מחלוקת the סמ"ע and the ש"ך and the קצות and the נתיבות whether by מגביה מציאה לחבירו the person who picks it up needs to verbalize his intent for the other person. The סמ"ע and the קצות both say that if Reuven is picking up for Shimon, Reuven needs to verbalize that he is picking up for Shimon when he picks up the object. The ש"ך and נתיבות disagree. It is pretty clear that the סמ"ע and the קצות need to learn the Gemara like the פני יהושע. If they hold in a regular case you need to verbalize, they would clearly hold in the Mishna's case that it doesn't work.

According to everyone the pshat in the Gemara's deflection from the רישא is as follows:
There is no proof from the רישא because maybe מגביה מציאה לחבירו לא קנה חבירו, however the din in the mishna will still be יחלוקו. Since they are both holding it and they both claim it is theirs, there are 3 possibilities:
1. It is Reuven's
2. It is Shimon's
3. They picked it up together and it is neither one's because מגביה מציאה לחבירו לא קנה חבירו

We will not let a third party take it because maybe it is one of their's and therefore the din is יחלוקו

The Gemara however, does not deal with the issue that how is this מגביה מציאה לחבירו if he didn't have כוונא to pick it up for him.

6 comments:

mmjiaxin said...

michael jordan shoes
michael kors handbags
ray ban uk,cheap ray ban sunglasses
oakley store online
kobe shoes
http://www.michaeljordanshoes.us.com
tiffany & co
mlb jerseys wholesale
michael kors handbags
tiffany and co
tiffany and co jewellery
tiffany and co
http://www.cheap--jordans.us.com
kobe shoes,kobe zoom,nike zoom kobe
tiffany jewelry
tiffany and co
oakley sunglasses
tiffany and co outlet
oakley outlet online
michael kors handbags
ray ban sunglasses
fitflops sale clearance
yeezy boost 350
cheap rolex watches
nike zoom running shoe
tiffany and co jewellery
cheap authentic jordans
http://www.cheap-airjordans.us.com
michael kors outlet
huarache shoes
adidas stan smith
michael kors outlet online
cheap tiffanys
cheap air jordans
true religion sale
gg

Unknown said...

ugg uk
ugg sale
coach outlet
uggs canada
ray ban sunglasses uk
uggs outlet
ralph lauren uk
tory burch outlet stores
coach outlet
nike trainers
chanyuan2017.01.17

Unknown said...

michael kors outlet
coach outlet
swarovski jewellery
coach outlet online
pandora jewellery
pandora outlet
polo ralph lauren
oakley sunglasses wholesale
coach outlet store online
rolex outlet
chanyuan2017.03.18

Unknown said...

nike shoes
fitflops
coach outlet
adidas yeezy
adidas outlet
rolex replica watches
cheap nfl jerseys wholesale
louis vuitton outlet
michael kors outlet
longchamp outlet store
20170325huazhen

caiyan said...

ed hardy
ralph lauren sale clearance
huston texans jerseys
fitflops sale clearance
adidas yeezy
beats by dre
fitflops
polo ralph lauren
adidas superstar
mulberry handbags
0504shizhong

Unknown said...

20170602 leilei3915
fred perry shirts
canada goose outlet
air jordan shoes
mulberry bags
prada outlet
fitflops clearance
kate spade outlet online store
canada goose jackets
kate spade outlet online
michael kors handbags