Wednesday, March 11, 2009

erchin 3b petur suka for teshvu ke'in taduru

Rav Meir pointed out that there is a difficulty understanding what is the answer of the gemara about why kohanim are chayav. The answer given in shiur is that the sukka does not create a problem for teshvu ke'in taduru but something external to that, that they have a tahara issue. The Rema seems to use this idea to say that the problem today (or back when he wrote it) IS inherent to the sukka (to justify not sleeping there), as he does not have a "sukka meyuchedes" for him and his wife. However, the Gr"a and others disagree with this and say, (if i understood this correctly), that Tosfos and Rashi that teshvu kein taduru is not me'akev!! (this is for sure what the "chok nasan" in the back of the gemara says).

One interesting question raised on this, by the Cheshek Shlomo (again in likutim in back of the gemara), is what about a yisrael -- he also is chayav in reiyas panim in the azara and therefore needs to be in a state of tahara! He suggests that mitzvas reiyas panim is only on the first day and simchas yom tov after that would be with כסות נקיה and ייו ישן. And in terms of the first night, he says that one would not get hte petur of the first night based on teshvu ke'in taduru since you are chayav the first night also because of hekesh to pesach!

17 comments:

Ari Shapiro said...

Your last point about the hekesh to Pesach I don't think is correct.

There is a machlokes rishonim what the hekesh means. The 2 possibilities are:
1. It is an extension of the regular din of yeshiva b'succa. On the other days of Succos ratzah ochel ratzah lo ochel, on the first night the hekesh says that you must eat. However, the regular din of teishvu k'eyn taduru applies.
2. The hekesh creates a new chiyuv of achila on the first night unrelated to the regular din of yeshiva b'succa.

There are a number of nafka minas
1. What if rains the first night? Do you need to eat in the succah? This is a machlokes harishhonim. According to 1, you would not. The regular din of teishvu k'eyn taduru applies. According to 2 you would need to eat as there is a chiyuv achila.
2. What is the shiur, k'beitza or k'zayis? According to 1 the shiur would probably be k'beitzah like all of Succos, according to 2 it is a din of achila and the shiur of achila is k'zayis (again a machlokes rishonim).

In any case, according to everyone teishvu k'eyn taduru would certainly apply on the first night to sleeping in the succah, the only time it may not apply is to the first k'zayis that you eat.

The hekesh to Pesach is to be mechayev him to eat a kzayis (or k'beitzah) in the succah after that everyone agrees teishvu k'eyn taduru applies.

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